Persians vs Goths

 Pottie


編集済み26 September 2014 - 12:17 pm by Pottie
There is no doubt the opponent would mix pikes as soon he sees any horses. (He plays infantry oriented anyway.) As mentioned earlier, xbow/skirm can not be a solution here. Far too much of their fire into the huskarl/pikes mix is wasted, going toward the huskarls.

Forget elite war elephants. Indeed even more than 3 pikes are needed versus one war elephant, but the pikes are still more effective and can be spammed easily.

I'm still under the impression that the lack of two-hand swordsmen and champs remains impossible to compensate. Probably making Persians versus Goths the most imbalanced of all possible pairings.

Hand cannoneers sounds plausible, but I doubt their anti-infantry bonus significantly outweighs the armor bonus of the huskarls. (Also, the severely inferior position during castle age will weaken the player in imperial age.)
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 [ViCiouS]EyeZz_


Posted26 September 2014 - 1:29 pm
Goth has edge on water, otherwise they drown on land versus Persian.
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 TheRoamingBoar


Posted23 December 2014 - 9:42 am
Top choice in any situation : Handcanoneers + meatshields + siege
Strongest unit choice : War Elephants + siege. This will only be achieved when you have a strong enough eco AND have enough time to gather a large group of Elephants thou. Why ? Its the number and the trample damage that matters. Nomatter how many halbs Goths pump out, they got trampled with a mass Elephants rolling on the road.
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 [LyF]rabid_wolf


Posted23 December 2014 - 11:27 am
hand canoner?
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 Pottie


編集済み19 January 2015 - 12:59 pm by Pottie
One must not compare halbs and war elephants at the the same number but at the very different numbers that result from roughly the same amount of resources. I have simulated it all over again, but war elephants simply do not work effectively, even under ideal conditions. In real games, war elephants have the added disadvantage of slow castle production.

I have still not found a reproducable recipe for Persians against the huskarl+halbs combination. Yes, they could use siege weapons, but Goths have those with same strength, so the unbalanced overall situation remains.

As someone pointed out earlier, it looks like Persians have to gain advantage in feudal time.
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 Arcade_


編集済み19 January 2015 - 1:41 pm by Arcade_
Pottie wrote:
One must not compare halbs and war elephants at the the same number but at the very different numbers that result from roughly the same amount of resources. I have simulated it all over again, but war elephants simply do not work effectively, even under ideal conditions. In real games, war elephants have the added disadvantage of slow castle production.

I have still not found a reproducable recipe for Persians against the huskarl+halbs combination. Yes, they could use siege weapons, but Goths have those with same strength, so the unbalanced overall situation remains.

As someone pointed out earlier, it looks like Persians have to gain advantage in feudal time.

try looking up 1v1 DM goth vs pers wars, that might be interesting

in case imp war, i think hand cannoneer and paladin is the most powerful non-siege army for pers against goth, but you should also remember that goths don't have all infantry armour upgrades, so actually persian halbs individually are stronger than goth halbs, in my opinion a combo of persian paladins + halbs would beat a combo of huskarls/champinos + halbs, but you'll need lots of barracks to account for that insane goth training speed

there's an important point people forget
age of empires civis are not all equally strong military-wise at all times during a match
the balance comes from non-military advantages and of course from knowing the civi strengths and weaknesses, and hence finding the suitable gameplan.

this is as opposed to other strategy games like starcraft where it is a must for the 3 races of the game to all be equally strong at all times of the match because the game is simply all about military
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 PoshMafia


Posted19 January 2015 - 2:47 pm
ja hc + hussar rlly only thing u can do. With bbc instad of ttebs. bbc alwayss usful
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 Pottie


編集済み27 January 2015 - 6:34 pm by Pottie
Arcade_ wrote:
[...] you should also remember that goths don't have all infantry armour upgrades, so actually persian halbs individually are stronger than goth halbs, in my opinion a combo of persian paladins + halbs would beat a combo of huskarls/champinos + halbs, but you'll need lots of barracks to account for that insane goth training speed

Probably the best idea yet, as it works already during castle and early imperial age, long before chemistry is there. Indeed I had overlooked that Goths lack the plate mail armor. However, Goths can build 4 units for the cost of 3 Persian units (25% cheaper), which is still superior to Persian eco bonus and the better armor combined.

I have my doubts about the Persian eco bonus anyway. As fas as I know, they just have the +50 wood/food, and town centers creating villagers faster. But no work related advantage. While Goths eventually get a lasting eco bonus by their +10 pop limit. Creating villagers faster will consume food faster, slowing down military production accordingly. So this "eco bonus" comes bundled with a military penalty. In a 1v1 on open map, one may not even want to slow down military production in favour of villagers. The only effective eco advantage to Goths in the mid-/long-term might be gold mining.

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 Duna


Posted22 January 2017 - 2:18 pm
keep eleps+hcs
its best i have tried several times if u want i can shw u
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 sultan_draris


Posted28 January 2017 - 9:31 pm
persians is the best civilization
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 jpvaca


Posted29 January 2017 - 10:55 am
This is ridiculous, persians can easily counter goths, gunpowder enough said.


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